Search + Seizure

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Veleno
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Search + Seizure

Post by Veleno » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:26 am

Comments? Critiques?

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Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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Threshold
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Post by Threshold » Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:30 pm

Well, it seems like you're trying to almost humanize Hitler as he was as a child. I don't follow it all that well, but what I see is young Hitler looking for his paintbrush, finding it, and then ?(Is that Adult Hitler) his elder self destroying it and sending him down his path to Fuhrerdom.

Three things I don't understand:
1) Why did you borrow the Citizen Kane reference?
2) Who is that actually destroying the paintbrush?
3) Why would young Hitler wear a swastika before he started the German Nazi movement?

Anyway, it's an interesting thought. But it's a bit unclear right now.

Veleno
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Post by Veleno » Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:39 pm

Other people had a bit of trouble understanding it too...I definately failed on clairity.

The comic is supposed to be taking place inside Hitler's mind, after he's already risen to power. A powerful and wraithful Hitler finding himself longing for his youth, then destroying that longing to keep his focus on the present. You're right though that that is an older version of himself destroying the paintbrush. Perhaps I ought to have used the same character model for both.

1) I'll attempt to say this without giving any direct spoilers to Citizen Kane. I used the Citizen Kane reference because the paintbrush represents his youthful dreams of becomming an artist which were taken away from him when he was rejected from the art school in Vienna. Also, I used it because like Kane, but to a more extreme extent, he became increasingly corrupt as he rose in power.

2) As said before, it is an older version of himself destroying it to drive his past self out of his mind.

3) I probably shouldn't have put that in...it was sort of supposed to be like those college T-shirts and sweatshirts that have the college name in big letters on the front. Bad joke.
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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Mat Barton
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Post by Mat Barton » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:26 am

I like this, but a some of your points are too much "on the nose", while others are entirely unclear. The rosebud bit is forced and the end kinda falls apart. The drawings are cool and would work better if they were inked, something like "The Flood" or the sub-comic in "Maus" where Spiegelman tells his story about his mother's suicide. The first four panels are very powerful and work as a great introduction to your comic. Nice work.

Rad Sechrist
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Post by Rad Sechrist » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:05 am

I was kind of hoping hitler would get stabbed in the throat with the paint brush.

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neil
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Post by neil » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:40 pm

Symbols and allusions usually work better when they're understated, but here "Rosebud" is like a blaring siren that you're referencing Citizen Kane, mostly because it makes no sense for him to have named his brush that, other than because the author wants to remind us of the movie. The problem is that this stops the reader and pulls him out of the story, and makes him wonder what the author is up to, instead of just reading. So I think that has to go. You can build the same "Rosebud" effect, by having the brush pop up at the end or something, without literally naming it that.

Also, the page with the circular panels isn't clear as to what's going on. It doesn't show us he's being kicked out of school, if that's it?

And, I think you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot by using Hitler as subject matter--it's not that it's impossible to write a good story about him, but you either need a very powerful insight, or you're just exploiting the reader's strong feelings about the Holocaust and WWII. (You can see that from some of the responses here.) The photograph(s) there only make this problem worse.

Anyway, I offered these comments because I think it's good that you're using comics to tackle serious subject matter, and that you'd want to reference a classic movie, but I think you need to revise a lot.

If you're into this pencil shading technique, you might like Renee French's comics: http://www.reneefrench.com/

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Kuzinski
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Post by Kuzinski » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:11 am

Hitler is a so dangerous subject even for very professionnal comics artists! You should improve your skills first before treating this kind of subject. And not only your drawing skills but the way you want to tell the story. In addition is there any interesting story there? Your point seem Hitler became the worst dictator and killed 6 millions of Jewishes because he was a bad painter? This is a very old concept and this is not very relevant in my opinion. And, yes, he was a human being and yes, reasonnable people followed him to kill more and more. Iµ could tell you about his obnoxious sexual practice but maybe young people are reading my post so...
See, I am so upset talking about this man...Why don't you just draw or write an assay? Things have to be precise when talking about this man and he is not a "subject". He is what we all have to fight every day.
(Sorry for this very moral post...)
Marc
Never give up, never surrender

Veleno
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Post by Veleno » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:24 pm

Meh. Was worried that people would think that I’m some sort of Nazi for even considering dong something involving Hitler as a subject. I also didn't want to give the appearance that I was trying to ride on the back of the Holocaust to make my comic "interesting." It seems I've failed on both accounts. Well, that's what I get for doing a rushed job.
So lets see, I don't believe that he became a dictator and killed 11 million people total (not to trivialize the Jewish, but people don't seem to mention the rest of the people killed very often) because he was rejected from art school. My interpretation of that argument is that if perhaps he had not been rejected, he might not have gone into politics. Indirect causation rather than direct causation.

Also, I wouldn't call Hitler a bad painter...while he was rejected from art school, they recommended that he go into architecture instead. He had skill with paintings of buildings, but had a poor grasp of the human figure.

I wouldn't call this a bad painting:
Image

Though also as for the rosebud thing...I admit I was being way too direct showing "Rosebud" on the brush. It was supposed to be just an obscure reference, but I screwed it up. If I redo the comic, I will most likely leave in the reference, but have it be less noticeable (in the background of an image...something that people will pass over on a first glance and will appear to have no significance if they do not have the knowledge to understand the reference). Also, rosebud wasn't supposed to be a name he gave the brush, but rather as the name of its manufacturer.

Well, anyways, thanks for the comments. Ah, well. Back to the drawing board.
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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Elias
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Post by Elias » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:46 pm

I don't know if I'm alone here, but I actually really liked the rosebud reference. I think you might need to spend a little more time refining the comic however. With a subject as delicate as the Holocaust, it pays a great deal to put in the extra time required to make sure people know where you are coming from. I really like the idea behind it by the way. I believe very strongly that even within the most twisted human beings is a spark of humanity. That of god, if you will, even if that light has been very deeply obscured by uncounted layers of darkness. It brings up the question: does absolute evil exist? Indeed, the Holocaust is often cited as a testament to that. Anyhow, your comic brings up some interesting questions, I just think the art needs to be given the same level of attention as the subject matter warrents.
I thought it was Tangiers I wanted...

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