The End of the World (or, "nice knowing you." )

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Clank
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Post by Clank » Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:02 am

I'm with Kazu; I'm making a rocket and getting the heck out of here.

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Kean
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Post by Kean » Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:27 am

Neil wrote:I guess I thought the most interesting thing about the story, whatever the credibility of the report, is that the president and the Pentagon can be so completely in disagreement here...
Agreed. But that doesn't stop me from taking issue with the relevance of the report itself. Because this issue is one of such low importance to me (impending wars and chaos caused by future global warming), that if I were an American citizen, there would be other issues that would have much more importance to me than this one particular issue -- don't even get me started on what Bush is doing with same-sex marriage as well as the oil/war issues.
Woah, the pentagon (pretty much against its own interests) and hundreds of nobel laureates acknowledge the threat of global warming and "A voice for business in the global warming debate" is supposed to offer the apolitical response?
I didn't say that this was an apolitical response. Just another side to the argument, and a different look at the numbers. I'm sure by now, people know that literally everyone is always playing an angle to their side of their story. What's worse is that anyone can take hard, concrete numbers and manipulate them enough to provide some sort of platform to stand their argument on. That's what really gets me going sometimes.
And remember it's not the media or The Guardian (or The Observer, which broke the story) that you're accusing of sensationalism, it's the Pentagon.
Yah, my bad. You're absolutely right, it's the Pentagon that's blowing everything out of proportion.

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Joel
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Post by Joel » Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:12 am

I HAVE to call shenanigans....

California will crack off and become the outer banks of the west WAY before Florida will go underwater, and the Yellowstone supervolcano will make a nice size deadzone before both of those events happen...

Hahah...just kidding...or AM I?

I think the fact that Earth's magnetic field is due for a reversal in polarity within the next few hundred years is really interesting, and rarely receives coverage...

The slow decay of our magnetosphere (but surprisingly quick, losing about 10% in the last hundred years or so) has a lot more to do with the Greenhouse Effect than our aerosol use...hahahah. The ozone anomaly in our antarctic is directly linked to a "weak" point in our mag field.

Sorry for the dork out...hahah....

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Post by Stick » Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:34 pm

we'll probally be dead by 2050 when the eventual nuclear cataclysm occurs. that or old age.


d'oh.

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neil
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Post by neil » Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:00 pm

Kean wrote:I didn't say that this was an apolitical response.
Yeah, I know.. But you were saying that the other side was overtly political, and I doubted it.. In that sense, this article didn't make the best counterpoint.
Kean wrote: What's worse is that anyone can take hard, concrete numbers and manipulate them enough to provide some sort of platform to stand their argument on. That's what really gets me going sometimes.
Yeah I think you're really right there. What's worse is that so much of the American media just claims to be "centrist" and "objective" rather than wearing their agenda on their sleeve. At least the casual reader knows exactly where The Guardian is coming from...
And that article reminded me of "creation scientists" who argue that the world is only a few thousand years old based on the amount of hydrogen in the atmosphere; really pathetic.

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Post by RobotHero » Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:12 pm

Joel wrote:The slow decay of our magnetosphere (but surprisingly quick, losing about 10% in the last hundred years or so) has a lot more to do with the Greenhouse Effect than our aerosol use...hahahah. The ozone anomaly in our antarctic is directly linked to a "weak" point in our mag field.
Except that ozone loss doesn't cause global warming.

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Joel
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Post by Joel » Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:43 pm

I should rephrase....the hole in our ozone layer has long been attributed to a product of the Greenhouse Effect, when in fact the magnetosphere has been more directly linked to the weak protection against radiation at that point.

Volcanic activity worldwide, both on land and the diffusion of fissures found underwater create the gases that add to the cyclical phenomenon that we of the modern age have dubbed the Greenhouse Effect.

These escaping gases and pressure relieved from the thermonuclear madhouse that is our Earth's molten core provide the swirling ferric solution that powers our magnetosphere.

So, keeping this in mind, the greenhouse effect and our failing magnetic field are linked.

I'm also pretty certain that these environmental concerns of ours are a lot more cyclical than anyone would ever care to admit.
Some researchers went crazy a couple months back when our sun had several unexplained solar flares and spots, thinking something horrible was happening and the sky was falling.
All of these things have more than likely happened several times before....just because a man wasn't there to record it shouldn't mean it has or hasn't happened before.

Eeeh....enough of my rambling...

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Kean
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Post by Kean » Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:53 pm

Joel, I'm a little confused here. Maybe you can clear up something for me.

I've never heard of the Earth's magnetosphere decaying. A quick Google didn't help me either. Are you in fact referring to the Earth's magnetic field decreasing as part of the cycle of the magnetosphere's pole reversal (something that is estimated to happen once every 250,000 years or so)? If this is the case, from what I understand of pole reversals, the magnetic field decreases in size and strength and then increases again in its cyclical nature -- which is apparently normal for this to occur. Is that what you mean when you talk about the "decay of the magnetosphere?"

...or maybe I don't have the first clue as to what I'm talking about. Most of my knowledge of the magnetosphere is from waaay back when from first-year Geology course (of which I slept through most of, or was more likely drunk at the time). Surprisingly, I've still retained all that useless information of convecting mantles and magnetic flux and the schistosity of rocks...

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douglas a. bot
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Post by douglas a. bot » Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:59 pm

The Mayan Calender runs out in 2012. Which they believed was the beggining of the next earth cycle. Or the end of the world.

You going to believe the Pentagon? Or an advanced civilisation of ancient genius.

d.

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ChadTHX1138
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Post by ChadTHX1138 » Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:11 pm

2 words MAD COW... oh yeah it wont show up in our bodies for another ten years, now they have that new PECKING CHICKEN diease...We are in trouble.
Chad Townsend
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douglas a. bot
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Post by douglas a. bot » Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:24 pm

All kidding aside.
I truly believe that seriously virulent disease will be what kills off mankind well before the earth explodes. Wether it be in 10 years or 1000...it will happen.

Someone said it's all cyclical...which is entirely true. The earth has gone through so many species, changes and evolutions in it's billion year existence...it's the selfishness of man that makes us think we are the first to be effected.

d.

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Joel
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Post by Joel » Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:48 pm

Kean: You've got it all right. The magnetosphere (our Earth's magnetic field) shields us from all sorts of cosmic radiation, with most of the more harmful radiation coming from our own sun.

I use the word "decay" simply because our magnetic field isn't protecting our planet as usefully as it did even a hundred years ago. The field will continue to decay, bit by bit, until the reversal occurs.

Interestingly, since someone mentioned the Mayan date of doom, there's quite a few researchers that beleive the Incan compound Machu Picchu wasn't a royal retreat, but a fertility clinic, using it's heavy rock composition to shield the Incan mothers from some strange solar effect on it's population.
It's theorized that some sort of magnetic disturbance happened, blasting central america with a lot more solar radiation that their mothers were able to conceive under.
It's also been mentioned that there might have been a polarity reversal.....which you'd think there'd be a lot more info from around the world at that time to corroborate that theory...hahaha.

There was a Nova show on PBS about a month ago, showing some college research teams attempting to create a viable model to "jumpstart" our molten core into producing a "better magnetic field" in case humans won't be able to survive the polar reversal.
The show was really kind of scary....they waited until the last minute of the show to declare we were hundreds of years off from when it would happen...or IS it? hahahahah

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E
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Post by E » Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:39 am

Nucleardan wrote:...That statement made me feel very small because it dawned on me, mother nature has a LOT at her disposal to kick our asses with. :)

Dan
ahahhaa, YEAH she does.


All this "this is the end" slash "end is near" bs is depressing. The world needs to be happy for no reason again like in the 80's. I cant recollect anything fuct about any of the 80s... mainly cuz I was a baby, but still. Regan was senile and life was grand.


...and I'd NEVER build a rocket and leave... imagine how dope it would be to live MAD MAX BEYOND THUNDERDOME... minus the whole... getting killed over water thing, I think it would be dope roking hardcore costumes and getting around on tankers and dune buggies!

SO cool.
--------------
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Kean
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Post by Kean » Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:31 pm

Thanks for clearing that up, Joel.

And while we're on the subject of calendar dates for Bad Things That Might Not Actually Happen, let's not forget about the 2038 bug. Most older Unix machines run on a 32-bit clock, and are used in large networked systems like air traffic control and various military & governmental systems. How much you wanna bet the media will blow this one out of proportion as well?

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Mothos
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Post by Mothos » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:05 pm

Speaking of capitalizing on people's fears:
The Day After Tomorrow looks like an interesting movie.

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